Curse

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 06, 2010, 02:31 AM // 02:31

On the phone today with my girlfriend/co-leader, we were discussing ways to maybe make PvE a bit more interesting, for better or for worse we aren't really sure. She brought up the idea of having the monsters in Normal Mode Dungeons, and Elite Areas and ALL monsters in Hard Mode have random skill sets. For example, the Aatxes in the Underworld (since that seems to be a big topic of discussion right now), some may have the skills they have now, others may have a different build, and others may have yet another skill set. For each mob, the skills are different, but they at least have synergy within the mob. Have like a randomized set of 3-5 different team bars so that a party is unable to go into an area using the same gimmick team build every time and dominate. This way they have to prepare for anything and everything. Of course, I'm sure that once all the builds are learned, the players will find some way to lower the difficulty of this, but at least in my opinion I think it would still be an interesting change to PvE.

When my gf brought this up to me, it seemed like a very cool idea. I like it, but maybe others may not, or have their own suggestions, or spin offs of ideas like this, who knows, but the player base is really smart and I'm sure you all may have other ideas.

Zodiac Meteor · Mar 06, 2010, 04:04 AM // 04:04

No, going to fight in an area you know nothing about is a bad idea. This would make normal mode harder than hard mode. Nothing spells out f*cking hell better than an Undead ranger with 7 interrupts.

/not signed

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 06, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26

well Cure, as far as how I would like it to be done, zoning in and out until they have the build they're looking for wouldn't work either, because each mob in the area would have a different build to begin with. Like, the first mob you run into could have one set, and the same exact type of creatures in another mob would have another. And, maybe it WOULD kill farming, but I highly doubt it would, nothing ArenaNet has done thus far has killed farming, so personally I don't think it would.

As for your reasoning Zodiac, I see your concern. But, by no means would I expect a creature in a mob to have a build like that. Ideally, the builds would be viable and synergize with the group they belong to.

I didn't expect to hear this was a bad idea honestly. Sure, it may discourage farming, but as far as I know, I cannot recall a single area unfarmable by a Shadow Form build, Obsidian Flesh build, or 600/smite build. In some areas, there may be less that you actually CAN farm then others, but still, I'm sure if something like this were to happen (even though it never will), the players would find a way around it and farm the hell out of it

MagmaRed · Mar 06, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Not sure it is even possible. Builds are designated for monster groups based on their location and type. So all monsters with the same name use the same skills. Variation exists solely for level differences (lvl 20 may have different skills than lvl 24). So you would either need to have new monsters added (Mandragor Imp, Mandragor Necro, Mandragor Pimp, etc.) so there would be different builds. That would allow prediction, and only alter which spawn where.

Far more difficult than I think you expect, and making builds that fit the game takes time, and alters with skill balances. I'd rather not see more time put into skill balances because they have to test out what the changes will do to PvE monster builds on a LARGER scale. Although the idea isn't bad, the implementation and upkeep would be bad.

Dorny · Mar 06, 2010, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Programming this, and removing the potential for bugs/crashes is way too complex I reckon.

Desert Rose · Mar 06, 2010, 10:08 AM // 10:08

I keep suggestion this for about 2 or 3 years now, but I would limit it (at least at first) to elite areas.

For each area there would be a pool of teambuilds consisting out of three different types: Small (2-4), Medium (5-7) and Big (7-9). Instead of placing a specific mob the devs simply place a placeholder for e.g. a small mob. Upon entering, the game will randomly place a mob on its place with a teambuild from the small teambuild pool.
For ideas for those teambuilds ANet could look at GvG- and HA-builds.

Sethellington · Mar 06, 2010, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

No, going to fight in an area you know nothing about is a bad idea. This would make normal mode harder than hard mode. Nothing spells out f*cking hell better than an Undead ranger with 7 interrupts.

/not signed

This is called PvP

jazilla · Mar 06, 2010, 04:51 PM // 16:51

...Or just add the same types of "area effects" as ToPK has. Except now, add effects against Assassins/Paras/Dervs/Rits. They are both marked as "Underworld" so it wouldn't be hurting lore, and you could keep it from being run just like Tombs is. Speaking of which, why did Tombs get the, "profession effect" and not UW?

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 06, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

an Undead ranger with 7 interrupts

See, this is the sort of thing they should already have throughout the game, regularly.

Axel Zinfandel · Mar 06, 2010, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I'm sure programming this would be to difficult in general, but it's something that would, theoretically be pretty awesome. Maybe not so much random skills as random builds. For instance, One enemy could have one of 5 potential builds. I would advise against doing it to counter-act farming of course (enchantment removal on monsters that don't normally have it).

I'd also suggest it be done in Hard Mode only, really.

gremlin · Mar 06, 2010, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I like the idea, the boring thing about the pve game is the predictability.

Why on earth should a mob be constructed of the same creatures with the same balance of skills always in the same spot.
Are they supposed to be that stupid that they never evolve their tactics.

Would it destroy farming ?
The solo farming build that is basically an exploit of the game would find it tough to continue.
Elite dungeons and areas would be all but impossible, except to balanced teams.

Farming of ordinary areas would continue though would occasionally fail depending what you met up with.

Make the game more fun though.

pvp has such variations and I believe is quite popular with a number of players.

So please yes try this out in a couple of areas in normal mode so more can try it out and await feedback.

tealspikes · Mar 07, 2010, 12:12 AM // 00:12

I would normally agree with your idea, but the majority doesn't play guild wars to adventure into the unknown anymore. They play to farm the hell out of what they do know.

Neith · Mar 07, 2010, 12:22 AM // 00:22

There's nothing wrong with builds being designated for monster groups. As a necro there are a variety of skills to choose from. I can either go SS necro, FoC necro, Aura Necro, anet can do the same thing with the skill bars of the foes. If anet can take 5-6 months trying to figure out SF, Obby Flesh, 600/smite...Why not take those months and figure out even a few of the overfarmed locations and change those skill bars to be variable. It would make the elite areas a little bit more of a challenge but would make PvE more interesting instead of always knowing where they spawn and what skills they use. I've monked in the UW and almost fallen asleep because it was predictable. The upkeep wouldn't be bad, if they can have the game for 4 years and not upkeep monster skill bars they can implement a 3-5 skill bar variables into the game and not have to upkeep them....granted as stated before groups would learn the skill bars and probably be able to exploit it after a while but the idea is that there would still be the variable of not knowing which skill bars the foes would be using, even that small variable would make the game more interesting. but seems like some people don't care about interesting. they just care about boring.

Fap · Mar 07, 2010, 12:54 AM // 00:54

this would be a good idea if pve wasn't full of sh*t like consumables, pve skills, pve skill versions, titles etc... meh it may still be a good idea.

vBeryl · Mar 07, 2010, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethellington

This is called PvP

No, PvP is Player vs. Player.
Even if every player has the same build.

PvE though, is atleast 1 or more players vs. AI.
Even if every AI has a different skill.
-
Edit: /signed

Shayne Hawke · Mar 07, 2010, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I liked the idea of monsters having non-stagnant skill bars, and then someone brought up the issue of farming.

I don't really know at the moment how to create a happy medium of the two, so I'm going to have to pass judgment on this at the moment. Either way, it likely is not happening in GW, but I would hope there's a chance of something like this appearing somewhere in GW2.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 07, 2010, 03:40 AM // 03:40

That is exactly what I was thinking... it would be a really nice addition to Guild Wars 2, make it unpredictable and since it started like that no one can say that the foes are predictable

.

Reverend Dr · Mar 07, 2010, 07:39 AM // 07:39

A way to make PvE different: Change it from a format where you kill 100's no 1000's no 100,000's of mobs, to where you have to kill a very few number of challenging mobs.

Maybe if the mobs didn't all have the trifecta of terrible AI, terrible bars, and no team build coordination?

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 07, 2010, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Well, some do. Mainly in Eye of the North. Mandragors inflict every condition in the book, and spread them to the entire party; Jotun have caster shutdown/melee shutdown along with strong warriors to hit hard. I'm not saying the builds are the greatest, but they synergize very well together.

Reverend Dr · Mar 08, 2010, 06:45 AM // 06:45

No the eye of the north mobs have builds that have some synergy, but really not all that much. It just comes as a huge shock after 3 campaigns where the mobs had no synergy what-so-ever. They still have terrible AI, their bars are still terrible, and team build coordination is minimal.

Even then because EoTN is still based around killing thousands of mobs, the fact that each group has some organization as opposed to none makes the game more banging head against wall than the previous games.